Blog: Chevrolet Volt—Enthusiast Driver’s Car?
Reading the comments on our Tesla drive, and about the Volt’s roughly $32,500 pricing (after subtracting the $7500 federal incentive), got me to thinking that we may misunderstand the Volt and other battery-powered cars. I haven’t driven the Volt, so only time will tell, but here’s the logic.
I start by observing that torque to weight ratios are what most people actually notice as “power” when driving on the street. I then notice that the Volt has a claimed 273 pound-feet of torque. For a mid-sized sedan, that’s not bad in conventional terms. It doesn’t sound amazing either.
To put this spec in context, let’s use the iconic small to mid-sized sedan, the BMW 3-Series. With BMW’s excellent twin-turbo six, the 335i sedan delivers 300 pound-feet of torque. Just to be clear that the comparison makes sense, wheelbase and length are about the same. The Volt is expected to weigh about 100 pounds less than the 335i. So, the Volt has about seven percent less torque to weight. Pretty close. The iconic hybrid, the Toyota Prius, has a little more than its gas engine’s rated 105 pound-feet of torque, if we assume that the electric motor is only used briefly during heavy acceleration. The Prius weighs 3000 pounds so it has about half the torque to weight of the Volt and the 335i. Not so close (and it feels like it).
Point 1: the Volt may have torque/weight roughly like a highly regarded sports sedan, so maybe thinking of it as a big Prius isn’t right.
I then go on to observe, from driving the Tesla Roadster, that pure battery powered cars (can) have a torque curve that feels more potent than the specs would indicate. Let me explain. I’d say in very rough subjective terms, the Tesla Roadster accelerates about like the C6 Corvette. The Tesla has 276 pound-feet of torque quoted, and weighs 2723 pounds. That’s a torque/weight ratio of 202 lb-ft/ton. The C6 Corvette has 424 pound-feet of torque and weighs 3217 pounds, for a torque/weight ratio of 263 lb-ft/ton. The Tesla in low and mid-speed acceleration feels as quick as a car that has a better torque/weight spec.
Part of the reason for this, of course, is the way electric cars accelerate. Electric cars make lots of torque at low rpm (theoretically maximum torque is from 0 rpm; in practice current inrush is limited and maximum torque is often flatish from zero to a few thousand rpm). Low rpm are usually where you’re running when you start accelerating. Electric cars can also deliver this torque nearly instantaneously since they can operate without a gearbox. It seems likely that the Volt would have a gearbox to maximize efficiency, but it could easily be a two-speed system in which case much acceleration will happen without a shift.
Point 2: the Volt may feel faster on the road than it’s claimed times in arbitrary tests like 0-60.
General Motors, naturally, will be torn between making the Volt a practical, super high mileage vehicle and making it fun to drive. There is a tendency among automotive marketers to think of those as conflicting choices. The Tesla shows they’re not. It may be possible for GM to design modes of operation that let the driver choose between these two goals on the fly. And if they offer modes, or if they come up with a sport version (as a Cadillac?), they could have a car that is a super high mileage alternative to a BMW 335i. If you think of the Volt in that light, $32,500 is pretty reasonable.
I know the haters in the crowd will protest that it isn’t a BMW (it isn't). The haters in the crowd will point out the cost of battery replacement (a real issue). The haters in the crowd will complain about the styling, the inconvenience of finding an outlet, or the missing gun rack. The haters will misguidedly say GM may not be around.
Those are cheap and easy thrills. But I think they miss the point. The Volt could be a very significant car for enthusiasts. Let’s hope GM has enough boldness to get it right. GM has the engineering skill to do it. But do they still have the soul?
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Comments
Mena
How much hp does the Volt make?
Tom Martin
Torque x rpm/5252 = horsepower. We don't know the torque curve of the Volt, but if it makes its 273 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm then it generates 207 horsepower at that speed. At 4000 rpm the 335i makes about 214 hp.
Mena
"At 4000 rpm the 335i makes about 214 hp."
More than likely the 335i will be a few hundred pounds lighter than the Volt. Considering a Pontiac G6 weighs 3500 lbs, I doubt the Volt will be anywhere near the 335i's weight.
Tom Martin
I'm quoting what has been reported about the Volt's weight. Recent reports suggest a Volt curb weight of 3700 lb., which is slightly more than a 335i. What GM really delivers could be different as the crunch to get the car done hits. But I don't think GM is just stuffing some batteries in the G6.
In any event, my point isn't that the Volt will perform exactly like the 335i (for one thing, folks who like to rev their cars to redline will find the place where ICEs still rule). My point is that it isn't as far away as the "big Prius" notion would have you think. It isn't likely to be a slug like the Malibu Hybrid or the Fusion Hybrid. Calling it a hybrid might even be a mistake.
partsman427@ec....
Hank Engel
This hater in the crowd does not have a problem with the missing gun rack,
the S & W .45 is on the hip where it belongs.
Volt could be a significant enthusiast car, all it needs is a 3 position driving switch
ecomomy, normal, competition
Tom Martin
I like the switch idea. I also think it will need a good suspension and steering -- the likely weak spots in reality. But, as I say, they have the Volt and planned the Opel Ampera, so why not do a Cadillac Watt and a Watt-V, one luxo- and one performance-oriented?
stevelovescars
The EV1 had an infinitely variable driving switch. It was called the accelerator pedal. Full down unleashed huge torque immediately with an inversely proportional decrease in the remaining range meter. Similarly, a Corvette driven with moderate care can return surprisingly good fuel economy.
I think Tom's analysis of electric cars as enthusiast vehicles is a good one. For people who have drive them as I have the reaction is usually "wow, that was really cool and really fun... different, but fun." I still know people who don't believe that any FWD car can be fun in the way their old muscle cars were. But the experience of a high-revving four cylinder in a light-weight well-tuned chassis is simply fun in a different way. Different, but still fun if you chose to appreciate it.
As someone who has driven and appreciated electric cars, the objection to the Volt idea (from a purist standpoint) is that a great deal of efficiency is lost by having to haul around two propulsion systems. a greater range in electric mode is possible if the extra weight of the energy generation systm is removed. Yet, I can understand the appeal of a "plug in hybrid" or "extended range electric vehicle."
I say let the great engineers who are left at GM design this thing the best they can and get them to market. I think a lot of owners will like the feeling of driving in electric mode and will have fun trying to minimize their use of the gasoline generator (hopefully just not while driving too slowly in the left lane as many Prius owners are accused of doing). Unlike adopters of pure EVs they will simply have an easier time since they won't need to find a power outlet in case they miscalculated their range.
This will, in turn, increase acceptance of the fun that can be had with electricly propelled vehicles and get people thinking of enthusiast vehicles of another kind. The market will be better for more choice and, let's be honest, those BMWs, Mustangs, and all the other internal combustion engined choices aren't going away any time soon.
PeterB
The Toyota Prius and Chevy Volt are designed to ecologically friendly vehicles, trying to compare them to a twin turbo six cylinder BMW 3 series car is rediculous.
If we build these cars to be compatible with performance cars then we are doomed. A large part of the electricy generated in North America is done using fossil fuels. What we we have gained. If you want power it's out there, you can buy a road going car with 1000hp in it why would you want any less.
I don't own a Prius but I have used one over long periods and it gets me to and from the paces I need to be just as easily as a Volvo S60. Maybe not with as much pizzaz but it was just as comfortable, especially after I turned the navigation unit off. The difference was it did it at 70 mpg not 26 mpg which is the reason the Prius exists.
By the way, an electric motor produces maximum torque from 0 rpm to its designed maximum rpm. Beyond the maximum motor winding impedance will drop the torque value but as rpm increases the power level stays constant; to limits of course. In short, the power - torque relationship in an electric motor is not the same as an internal combustion engine and the two cannot be compared. They are apples and oranges.
Tom Martin
You are welcome to your philosophy about what we can and can't compare ecologically friendly cars to. I would only suggest that if your interest is in having more people understand the benefits of ecologically friendly cars you might consider a broader point of view.
To help with that it is important to understand the problems we're trying to solve so that we can understand the proposed solutions.
Problem 1: too much consumption of a limited and politically costly resource -- oil. While it is true that about 70% of electricity comes from fossil fuels today, only 3% is generated using petroleum products. Shifting to electrically-powered vehicles can directly affect the oil consumption issue.
Problem 2: greenhouse gas emissions (aka global warming). Using the current electricity generation system, with no greenhouse gas regulations, electric vehicles appear to generate half or less the greenhouse gas output of comparable internal combustion cars. On top of that, there is nothing inherent to the electric generation system that requires greenhouse gas emissions (fossil fuels need not be used) and there are opportunities to clean up greenhouse gas emissions substantially when fossil fuels are used.
As for torque and power -- these are physical properties. 273 lb-ft is 273 lb-ft whether it comes from an electric motor or an ICE. The relationship between horsepower and torque is determined by physics, not by the motive source. So of course torque and power can be compared. It is apples and apples. I believe what you mean is that electric motors and internal combustion engines tend to have different torque and power curves. That, basically, is one key reason that point 2 in my original blog is likely to be true.
clarks@nbnet.nb.ca
Why do journalists want to compare things to a BMW? It would seem that year over year we read the journalist impressions of all the cars trying to be a BMW 3 series only to have BMW become the top choice again. I think it’s more about getting us to read their articles that seem more and more like marketing hype rather than an exchange of information.
The real question; what has changed at GM to allow them to be able to make a car one their first try that would sway enthusiast from BMWs. Lexus, Infinity, Acura and others have spent billions trying – none has succeeded over a couple of model generations. All of the Japanese contenders have in one category have bettered BMW – their cars have been more reliable. GM can not even claim that as a general statement of the models they sell.
I’ll not be holding my breath waiting for GM to build a car to match any of the near luxury sedans and I certainly would not be willing to give equivalent money to GM any time soon based on their track record of building reliable cars. If I remember my history correctly, the one car GM built that was very well received and very reliable they rounded up and crushed.
The other part of the story – BMWs and the almost contenders all build nice cars – it will be much easier for them to adopt technology to their already great platforms. The BMW 335D comes to mind. I am sure BMW makes less powerful and more fuel efficient models North America does not allow.
Just so you don’t think I am a BMW fanatic – I drive a 1999 Subaru legacy wagon that gets 4 MPG more than my wife’s 2007 non turbo legacy wagon (should not her two generation newer car get better fuel mileage?). Her car is nicer but I sure don’t feel as bad when mine gets used as a door stopper by mini van pilots.
Tom Martin
The reason for using a BMW in this comparison is to establish a reference for the Volt because the question is whether the Volt or other battery-powered cars might be desirable to (eco-minded) enthusiasts. A reference needs to be a widely agreed upon good thing, in this case a car desirable to enthusiasts. It also needs to provide a relevant comparison (in this case size, price and category). The BMW 335i works because it is a good enthusiast car that is relevant for this comparison. Logic like this is what makes useful information exchange possible; it has nothing to do with marketing hype.
The question I'm exploring is not whether the Volt will be better than a 3 Series at what the 3 Series does so well. It won't. The Volt isn't trying to be a 3 Series. The Volt won't drive like a 3 Series, and few people will cross-shop the two cars. GM knows that just like you do if you stop to think.
By the same token, the 3 Series won't be better than the Volt at what the Volt does well. With past eco-cars that sort of statement has been because eco-oriented cars had no enthusiast possibilities, which made this a blinding bolt of the obvious but not very interesting. The Volt might be different. There are excellent reasons to doubt that it actually will be, but those are issues of GM's intent. This blog is intended to point out what could be.
Mena
I used the G6 as an example. I wasn't trying to say the Volt was a hybrid G6. I just find it hard to believe that with the G6 weighing as it does that GM's Volt would only weigh a couple hundred pounds more. I would be genuinely surprised if it came in at that weight or anywhere near it for that matter. I think at 273 lb-ft and probably at least that much in hp, the Volt won't be slow. Will it be sporty? That's anyone's guess. I hope it is.
Tom Martin
GM says "880 lb. more than a standard compact car". If that's the G6, you're right. If it is the Cobalt, we're at 3685 lb.
Will it be sporty? I doubt it, but that's a mental block, not a technological one. But as you say, we can hope.
GreenManedLion
You know, I think all this hybrid crap and performance desires is a bunch of hooey.
I have several points. I am a collector of older car magazines, C&D, R&T, Automobile, MT, and others. And I don't collect them to collect them, I actually read them. Which places me in a time where BMWs 3-series struggled to hit 60 mph in under 13 seconds. And all three magazines called it "pretty quick." As, at the time relatively speaking, it was.
I love cars and over the years have owned several sports cars. An MG TD, for example. A car that couldn't crack a hundred miles an hour on a 20 mile downhill straightaway. I'd say its one of the most fun to drive cars I've ever owned. A friend of mine, contrarywise, had a 1970 Cadillac Eldorado, a car with a 472? cubic inch plant, producing quite a bit of horsepower that was pretty quick, and was no fun to drive whatsoever, other than for shits and giggles. (Wow, mommy, am I on a boat?)
It doesn't bug me that you compare this car to the BMW 335i so much as the logic with which you do it. You are suggesting that a car, simply because it has nearly 276 lb-ft of torque mated to a (relatively) lightweight chassis, could be an enthusiast car. That is utterly preposterous.
Furthermore, I am sick of the rhetoric that seems to be coming out of every car magazine about performance. I'm sitting here, reading a Car And Driver comparison test in which they call a car that hits 60 mph in less than 6 seconds "kinda sluggish." Wait what? A fast car and a fun car are two different things. Go drive a Morgan Plus 4. A better sports car isn't made. Talk about BMWs and driving involvement in the same breath? No my friend, the Morgan is driving involvement.
Now, what car do I drive on a daily basis? A 1995 Mercedes-Benz E300 Diesel. Am I going to tell you its fast? Hell no. Its slow. Honestly, I think the average car should be faster- but not that much faster. This car is fun to drive, however. It takes skill and determination just to keep pace with traffic- and it has a chassis that allows you to exploit it.
So I make a statement: There is no reason on earth that a car, positioned as something other then a high-performance car for enthusiasts, need hit 60 mph in less than 10 seconds, nor be capable, limited or not, of hitting more than 124 mph (200kmh). A car with the power-to-weight ratio allowing better, when not positioned for someone who inherently drives fast frequently, is a waste of metal, power, and fuel.
Somebody here admit that you have been driven near to tears seeing a E550 being driven by a middle aged woman at 25 in a 35! What a waste of a car, of an engine, and of a hell of a lot of fuel. She'd be just as happy driving an E200 CDi.
In addition, we talk about weight creep. Lets go back to the 90s to a concept FoMoCo was touting back then: Compound weight savings. If I remove 500 lbs from a midsize family sedan in one place, I can save a lot more. Why? I don't need as heavy duty a suspension. With, lets say, 525 lbs knocked off, to maintain acceptable performance as specified above, I can comfortably fit in a 2.0 litre four cylinder instead of a 3+ litre six. With less power going to the wheels, I don't need nearly as strong a transmission, axle, cv joints, brakes, and so on.
We're over complicating this. We really are.
Mena
"We're over complicating this. We really are. "
See your governments ever increasing safety regulations as the cause of all this weight gain in cars.
forrresti
I know that most of you already heard the negative effects brought by the recession. Many people as well as companies affected by that, including the GM motors. But, now, it’s a big surprise for everybody that the GM announced a new electric car known as the Chevy Volt. Well, it’s an example of how GM is trying to rebuild itself, as it drives away from bankruptcy and the massive government bailout that's keeping it alive. So, to those who are electric car fans, get a load of the Chevy Volt. The Chevy Volt is the long awaited GM electric car. It's technically not a full electric, it's a plug in hybrid, as it does have a small gas motor, but the fuel efficiency is a Prius humiliating 230 mpg. It has a range of 40 miles on electric only, depending on weight and if the air conditioning is engaged, a total range of 300 miles, and you must charge it at least once a day. No word on whether Cash for Clunkers will be around for it. Still, if you don't want to need cash advances for gas, the Chevy Volt might be worth the $40,000 sticker.
forrresti
I know that most of you already heard the negative effects brought by the recession. Many people as well as companies affected by that, including the GM motors. But, now, it’s a big surprise for everybody that the GM announced a new electric car known as the Chevy Volt. Well, it’s an example of how GM is trying to rebuild itself, as it drives away from bankruptcy and the massive government bailout that's keeping it alive. So, to those who are electric car fans, get a load of the Chevy Volt. The Chevy Volt is the long awaited GM electric car. It's technically not a full electric, it's a plug in hybrid, as it does have a small gas motor, but the fuel efficiency is a Prius humiliating 230 mpg. It has a range of 40 miles on electric only, depending on weight and if the air conditioning is engaged, a total range of 300 miles, and you must charge it at least once a day. No word on whether Cash for Clunkers will be around for it. Still, if you don't want to need cash advances for gas, the Chevy Volt might be worth the $40,000 sticker.
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