Stanford University Study Shows Ethanol to be Worst Form of Renewable Energy
Mark Jacobson, professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering and director of the Atmosphere/Energy Program at Stanford University, recently conducted a study that ranked alternate energies from best to worst. Ethanol was put to the test against, "Solar-photovoltaic (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP), wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, wave, tidal, nuclear, and coal with carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology." After looking at reports of air pollutants from energy types on climate and air quality, and comparing how well each energy type was able to power vehicles, the study showed that Ethanol came in dead last.
It seems that the report found that wind-powered battery electric vehicles as well as wind-powered hydrogen fuel cells were the greenest ways to go. The immediate problem now, is the fact that driving a wind-powered battery electric vehicle is horrendously expensive, let alone impractical. And for its part, Ethanol has already received huge support from the automotive industry and the U.S. government. Finding an appropriately sized role for ethanol, with adequate support for the greener of the new green-tech is easier said than done.
+ AutoblogGreen: Ethanol turns out to be the worst type of renewable energy
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Comments
chartguy
They didn't even mention the fact that growing ethanol causes massive pollution. It has been estimated that the recent surge in ethanol use will DOUBLE the size of the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, at the mouth of the Mississippi.
Ducati Minor
Another one of these ethanol posts...
I've read contradictory reports about ethanol's negative ecological effects. Ethanol, itself, is a clean fuel. When you factor in methods of manufacturing ethanol and distributing, you're stretching the issue. If I use that logic, I would argue the facilities that build wind mills are draining critical material resources and the low-powering mills take up large swathes of land, invading the space of wildlife.
Diesel...that's completely thrown out if you use expanded logic. So would the battery development found in HEVs and EVs. It's stupid to think, but one could legitimately argue that a Hummer can be greener than a Prius.
chartguy
Here's a link to a summary of one study.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080310181604.htm
Here's another story:
http://www.physorg.com/news113067640.html
I haven't seen any research that says that corn for ethanol is not making the problem worse. Perhaps you could point me to it.
Now, if we can produce ethanol economically from wood chips (as one Wisconsin company claims), it becomes a fantastic alternative. Like most alternative fuels, there are advantages and disadvantages. Producing ethanol from corn seems to me to be a total waste, brought on by Archer Daniels Midland and all their lobbying money.
Ducati Minor
Being that I never praised corn ethanol, I don't think I have to defend anything.
I'm a staunch supporter of cellulosic ethanol. I argued with the logic and method pointed out by by the Stanford study and similar others. I look at corn ethanol is a bridge fuel to more efficient forms of bio-fuels, such as corn stalks or (to a lesser extent) sugarcane. The latter would be a geo-political benefit to open trade with sugar-rich, money-poor Cuba if you think about it...and help out our incoming president's old homestate of Hawaii.
I'm not ignorant of these studies. I've read and seen them all: Popular Science, Scientific American, the UC Berkeley research group, Dan Rather Reports, Autoblog Green, and Robert Bryce's Yale columns. The studies, like a conspiracy theory, are based on factors (in the research case, variables) that can be slightly adjusted to create a series of negative effects leading to a desired conclusion.
E85 is not the right course. But my fear is that continued stigmatizing of corn fuel will turn away from the possibly rich avenue presented by, of all things, use of cellulosic ethanol--like that from corn stalks. This doesn't take away the food element, and gives farmers a source of good revenue--actual demand for their goods. I could condemn cellulosic ethanol development, like hydrogen, for its current high expense and difficult production. However, I believe in technology and the continued advancement to make this fuel more accessible.
My issue, again, was with the core logic of this argument and the repeated statements from these money-taking studies that come up with the same basic conclusion. No one needs more of them. We know.
Anonymous
With the exception of coal (Some funding likely came from the coal industry), it should not surprise anyone that ethanol is the worst in this comparison, but how does it compare to gas or diesel.
It is an alternate energy, it should be compared to the energy we would like to get away from.
Ideally for the environment we would all drive solar powered cars with the capability of charging a battery reserve large enough to last the night. That's not going to happen any time soon, if ever.
Fighting over which alternate energy is best while doing nothing does not help.
chartguy
Ducati,
I agree with you. If we can get ethanol from a reasonable source, such as wood chips or sugar cane, I'm all for it. What I have trouble with is government subsidizing corn for ethanol. The downside of that strategy is huge.
Anonymous, I don't believe that ethanol from corn is a viable "alternate energy" source. It's very innefficient, requiring large amounts of energy to produce, removing corn from the food supply chain, and creating large environmental damage. Ducati is right. Cellulosic ethanol has tremendous potential.
Finally, there's the issue of market forces. WTI Crude closed at $33.87/bbl. Friday. Many, many "alternate energy" sources that might have been economically viable at $145.66/bbl. (7/11/08 price) are not even close at today's price.
Russ Bellinis
Interesting discussion. I have to agree regarding the use of corn to produce ethanol, but I'm enough of a skeptic to be convinced that R & D is never done on anything for altruistic reasons. If there is money to be made, the government and corporate greed will always take the selfish way out.
I'm not sure how long oil prices will stay low. If the world economy falls into a depression like the 1930's, I suspect that the demand for petroleum will fall, and prices won't recover for a decade or more. If there is an economic recovery, even if it takes 2 or 3 years, the price of oil will go back up. The problem with needing oil to be at a price point of $145.66 per barrel in order to make alternative energy viable is that when the oil gets to that price and the r & d hasn't been done, then by the time there is viable alternative energy sources in place oil is at $300.00 per barrel. The problem as I see it is we may not need it now, but if we don't develop it now, we won't have it when we need it.
Anonymous
There's always the option of harnessing a horse to the front bumper.
Skeptic
Hmmm... Chartguy are you a PR guy paid by Big Oil? It appears they are spending more than Big Tobacco on smear campaigns as well as legit ads in the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times etc. While Archer Daniels Midlands has perpetrated many misdeeds, they still must obey Sarbanes-Oxley and report money flows. They are not owned by a royal family or a secretive foriegn national.
However, I thank you for the weblinks. May I suggest you investigate another source?
Argonne labs has a well to wheel analysis- the GREET model that is the public domain, and been subject to peer review. I believe any research that has not allowed scientific scrutiny might as well be a magic diet pill sold on late night TV infomercials- even research from Stanford. Who paid for the Stanford research? The information in this article is incomplete; shame on the reporter for not disclosing this or printing an article without asking that question. Does Vioxx ring a bell?
One issue not addressed is energy security; what to do, if we have an immediate disruption from major suppliers of gas(if a situation like Gaza expands and explodes beyond borders; the black swan)
We need solar, clean coal etc. The question becomes, how quickly could these technologies ramp up in order to genuinely benefit the masses in the near term?
Colin Jones
Ethanol, Australian car manufacturers love ethanol...
1. It's available
2. Very little development neds to go into it
3. Very little production changes are needed
4. They can be seen as careing sharing nice guys
GM in Australia was prior to 2008 keen to go Hybrid with its Holden Commodore, but now like Ford the line is Ethanol , Ethanol and more Ethanol.
Research now publicly claims efficiencies are down and the price for the pure product is high. Oil companies like this too.
Like LPG and diesel, ethanol can be controled by the fuel companies.
We need a long hard look and try and see beyond the next 12 months.
Ethanol will be viewed as a poor alternative fuel in years to come.
Good luck to the manufacturers of other alternative fuels, It would be nice to see governments throwing millions at these companies.
canyonrat
I'm an Iowa farmer and I'd like to add my two cents worth. For some perspective in 1959 US farmers planted 82,742,000 acres of corn, in 1980 84,043,000 acres and in 2008 85,889,000 acres. As you can see, acreage for corn has not dramatically increased. If you have ever driven through the midwest, the endless fields of corn you see are not the sweet corn that we eat but rather field corn, the vast majority of which has always and still is grown for animal feed. When corn is made into ethanol the protein remains and is used for animal feed just like it always has been. Let me repeat this, corn used for ethanol is still used for animal feed. No one is going hungry because of ethanol. The latest research show that ethanol produces 67% more energy than it takes to grow and process the corn into ethanol. Finally you can be sure that we won't be spending billions of dollars and the lives of our brave servicemen and women defending our corn fields from our enemies.
Vitaliy
All I have to say is that we used to pay the Chinese with corn, now we have to pay with a deflated dollar.
Plus the fact that it takes a lot of water to grow corn and kills soils.
SysEng
In general, and particularly in this case, it is very easy to create a model, but difficult, if not impossible, to validate it.
At a minimum, Professor Jacobson should provide his algorithm and the parameter values he used to obtain the results.
Anonymous
ok if we assume that it is worst than can we predict it is worst among what.
obviously it may be worst among others but after all it is an alternative.
and it is very cheap to make them.
i am saying this taking my country in my mind which produces a lot of sugarcane from which we are very capable to make ethanol,i dont know about other countries.
but unfortunately due to lack of coordination here we are not using this technology.
Moonshine Muscle
For now it works great as a petroleum based fuel extender (E10 and E20) and in some specific engines bias tuned to E fuels makes more power with less significant loss in fuel economy.
Interesting comments after this article, especially addressing the "carbon neutral" aspect.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/12/18/ethanol-turns-out-to-be-the-wors...
Now you also have to realize that I agree with the now majority of climatologists and scientists that man made global warming is a bunch of horse hockey. As for carbon footprints, just think about the forestation around the race track outside of Reading, PA and the oxygenated air surrounding it that makes all those stockers and super stockers set records! I also experienced a difficulty in backing mine down into the index for Nostalgia Muscle Car the two times I competed there. Second time went to the semi's because my first two opponents broke out which I then did third round!
The technologies that make production costs realistic are out there but they are as yet untested for the quantity of production necessary for appropriate return on investment w/o subsidized construction. Once they are refined and perfected even our summer grass clippings could be feedstock for the local "still".
So far it is my opinion based on experience that ethanol, even fermented corn based, is the best alternative for now until technology for all this wind and solar stuff gets practical if ever. Hydrogen is second, but its hard to handle and rare in supply. My suggested solution is drill here, drill now, blend 20 to 30 percent across the board and get out from under the terrorists that would just as soon use the product to set the country on fire as sell it to us as motor fuel.
...and that's my $0.019
Okonkwo Elochukwu
Very cheaap to make! i agree with that, but to my own understanding this will directly affect(inflate) the prices of these products or even its availability for consumption.
SacramentoE85
Hello all, great to see the discussion here of this important alternative fuel (ethanol/E85). Before attacking this alternative (to gasoline and diesel) fuel, please show that wind power right now can both power cars, plus homes and businesses. Show that those cars are priced the same as their gasoline counterparts (as E85 FFVs are). Show that those cars don't have terrible environmental effects in their production (as hybrids do when the precious metals are mined, shipped from Canada to Japan, then shipped to the U.S.). Heck, some studies have shown a gasoline-powered Hummer to be more environmentally friendly than the hybrid Prius!! Show that corn doesn't recycle the CO2 released when ethanol/E85 is combusted. Show that, if we didn't produce ethanol, the Midwest farmers would all of a sudden stop growing corn and instead plant their fields to grass so that fertilizer wouldn't be washed down river to the Gulf of Mexico. Show that if ethanol weren't produced, the rainforests in S America wouldn't have been burned all of these decades (hmm...before ethanol took off there...). And that somehow they would stop burning them down without ethanol? Show that waiting for these other technologies to be developed, continuing to use petroleum gasoline and diesel, funding global terrorism, is better than finding cheap abundant alternatives in the meantime. You're not going to convince anyone until you look at these factual problems to your side of the argument.
IMrider
Canyonrat, aren't you benefitting from the whole ethanol scam? If not for the massive subsidies, the ethanol program would be non-existent. By the time you figure in all the energy required to make this fuel, it's not viable. Reminds me of the GW proponents defending their stance as the research dollars keep rolling in.
For this to be viable, we need to switch to a different base such as sugar beets or sugar cane. Corn is a poor starting point for this technology.
Here in Colorado, we're subjected to using alcohol in our fuel in the winter. We suffer through these months with a decline in fuel mileage and poorly running vehicles.
Openminded
I caught this thread through my online Winding Road Magazine article and couldn't help noticing how passionate everyone is...
So... follow this link and see what they are doing in Asia to produce ethanol:
http://ptfirstfruits.com/page3.php
Car designer
I agree that corn based Ethanol is not a viable source of fuel for the USA. The acreage need to grow enough corn is not available. The soil erosion, the chemicals needed for fertilization and pest control that may wind up in our water system and the fuel needed for tractors and other heavy farm equipment all add up to a net loss.
Algae based Ethanol on the other hand needs no heavy diesel powered farm equipment, does not use pesticides or chemical fertilisers, creates oxygen and consumes CO2. Sites are under construction near coal powered electric plants that use water to filter out the CO2 from the smoke stacks. This CO2 rich water and sunlight are all that is needed to grow algae, and it grows so fast that you can watch the water turn green as it travels along clear plastic tubes in side of a green house. Some forms of Algae are 50% oil, the reason algae floats on pond water, and when combined with bacterias under development fuels from jet fuel to heating oil and cheap ethanol are just a few years in our future.
Google "Algae Farms" for more info.
BilboBaggins
It would seem as thought the only people that will benefit from ethanol are the lobbyists, politicians, and the large agra-businesses. It certainly isn't green when you consider the whole production process from seed to fuel pump.
The increase in the amount of acreage dedicated to corn could also lead to huge monoculture crops and susceptibility to insect or disease damage that could effect not only ethanol production but food production as well. Since so much already depends on corn, it is used as; a sweetener(high fructose corn syrup), packaging(corn starch water soulable or bio-degradable materials), flour for human foods, cattle feeds, pet foods, and as a vegetable for human consumption, just to name a few. Adding thousands more acres of corn seems like putting too many eggs in one basket.
Kevin Geraci
Let's get real...the odds of hydrogen vehicles becoming affordable or practical in my lifetime is highly unlikely. If the US would stop making ethanol from corn and make it from sage-grass, sugur can waste, etc. we could have 100% alcohol cars (not E-85) which as less polluting than any of the top runners. Look at Brazil, 60% of the cars run on pure alcohol now. We could utilize all the same shipping trucks, tanks, pumps, etc. It is a total realistic win-win. Articles like this miss the point entirely.
MGBYG
The responses above are nuts!
Big Petrol PR guys posting anon,
ADM-paid farmers shelling chicken crap,
Blockheads relenting that anything "new" cannot be done,
Psuedo-scientists quoting periodicals beyond their limited grasp,
And lounge-chair bankers cherry-picking costs to better showcase their view!
I work for a PV-related company and my bias (and per$onal gain) is with solar, indirect and direct, but not stored-in-the-ground-for-millenia solar energy.
I really like the algae idea, but what's the catch? The Great Algae War of 2043?
Corn? That modified Mexican prairie grass has reached its limits. Made America very fat, too, with it's HFCS.
PV has got one big benefit, if I may, that it may be a little 'dirty' to manufacture, but that is done ONCE and the unit produces energy every day for decades...corn, algae, etc. are non-stop-consuming paths.
tysonmotorcycle
Great discussion everyone;
I'm a mechanical engineer involved in automotive design. So, we want to find an alternative fuel for our motor vehicles. I don't think it needs to be debated that gasoline is dirty, and the industry that provides it is unhealthy for the planet. This leaves us with two ongoing delimas.. One is how to produce the cars of the future so that they are more earth friendly. The other is what to do with the approximately 250 million vehicles on the road in the U.S. today, most of which burn gasoline?
I believe the market will sort out the best way forward, with consumers driving the development of better batteries and fuel cells. With better LiIon battery technology available each year, we are only a few years away from mass produced, commercially viable electric vehicles that are competitive with other technologies.. For example, this year, there was a liIon improvement that allows large batteries to be re-charged in a matter of minutes.
For cars and trucks already on the road, I see the only viable alternative for gasoline powered vehicles to be an inexpensive conversion to ethanol. Most modern vehicles can be converted to run on an ethanol/gasoline mixture or pure ethanol for $500-$1000. The only real change that needs to be made is to add a circuit into the fuel injection system that changes the air fuel ratio to accomidate the roughly 20% increae in fuel consumption (for 85% ethanol). These are commercially available, for example: http://www.aussieethanol.com/shop/products.asp?id=107&Cat=Eco-Flex+Plati...
Another issue I have heard/read about using ethanol is that we are using our food as a fuel souce. This is a basic misconception, and is simply wrong. Corn, for example contains carbohydrates that are not digested by cattle. These carbohydrates are removed for ethanol production, and the remaining protien, fats and added yeast actually produce a feed product that results in more weight gain by the animals. For example, at 8:28 or so on this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UiVNb0Iqys&feature=related
or skip to 14:30 if you're impatient and check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vq7km9TWL0&feature=related
I am not affiliated with anyone selling systems, but I am converting vehicles and making ethanol in the near future. The word is that you can make ethanol for about $1 a gallon; I'm going to soon find out!
Good luck to you all!
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